Difference between revisions of "Strategy:Ironman"

Latest revision as of 18:21, 25 July 2024

0.9.9.7

Ironman

Ironman is a great trait to level up in--depending on what you want to do.

As a "standalone" trait (i.e., a trait to level up in just 'cause), Ironman is a great fill-in if you don't want to get other more "important" traits first.

This trait is also a great choice if you're really hurting in health, armor, and general resistances. Selecting Ironman won't give you "free health", it simply boosts your max HP by 10 points (and actually boosts your current HP by 10 also). Because damage is dealt by calculating how much HP you have, and to an extent, the percentage of max HP you have, having a level or two in Ironman can really come in handy when the late-game enemies come out to play.

Ironman will make you practically immortal against the former human/sergeant group (especially so when paired with a good armor and decent weapon).

Last words of advice? Ironman is a great trait to level up in for a defensive build, or just a good trait to have after completing a Master build. I would recommend leveling up in more savory traits such as Reloader, Son of a Bitch, Finesse, and so on before selecting this trait.

GinDiamond (talk) 21:21, 14 October 2013 (CEST)

One less-discussed factor about Ironman is that it increases the power of health kits and health levers, since these always heal you by a percentage of your maximum HP. It might not build to Badass (TaN does that), and it actually doesn't build towards anything but Survivalist for Marines, but it is also blocked by nothing, so it fits into any build. If you're a Marine, you get Badass access free anyway, and getting more health further increases the power of Badass, since your boosted maximum is also increased. Even if Badass is blocked by your Mastery, Ironman isn't, so it can toughen you up a great deal. On Ao100 or Ao666, Ironman is invaluable, probably even moreso than offensive traits once you finish your mastery, since later enemies have a high chance of instakilling you without it, and since it increases the power of health packs, it can push your limited resources farther.

Since it does build towards Survivalist, it should be noted that Survivalist is probably the best General Mastery of all, since it makes you as tough as a goddamned tank. It might not be as fun as other masteries, but it's an ironclad insurance policy. More offense might help you win more fights, but more health will help you win the game.

Vid-szhite (talk) 06:38, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Ironman is a filler trait through and through; 10 extra max HP is certainly not a bad thing to have (usually, we'll touch on that in a bit), but simply 10 extra HP isn't going to be doing all that much to win you the game in the way other traits will. Strictly defensive-based traits are already inherently flawed, as often for them to have any effect relies on bad play; there will certainly be situations where damage is unavoidable and even the best players will inevitably make mistakes that get them hit, but just playing better will do a lot to reduce the damage you take, and so traits that better facilitate good play thus have inherent value over those that rely on getting hit to have any effect. When it comes to improving your survivability, Hellrunner will often be the premier choice, as the increased movement speed and dodging rate will allow you to avoid hits you would have taken without it, while nothing reduces damage more than avoiding getting hit in the first place. Then Hellrunner is also not strictly a defensive trait, as it very much improves your offensive ability when you can better outmaneuver or approach enemies, and has other general utilities that taking less time per move grants. Another thing is that a good offense making a good defense is very much true in DoomRL; if you can kill enemies before they get the chance to attack you, you'll take no damage at all (i.e. the reason why Angel of Max Carnage is widely considered to be easier than the standard game, despite enemies hitting so brutally hard in it). As such, investing in DPS-boosting traits like Finesse and the various damage-boosting traits will very much keep you alive better than more max HP will. Intuition is another trait that will do a lot more to keep you alive; knowing where enemies are outside your vision will let you avoid stumbling into a bad situation in the first place, and knowing where powerups are will let you know where to beeline to if you need healing or the power of Invulnerability/berserk to fight a strong group of enemies. So overall, Ironman should generally only be picked after you already exhausted investing into pertinent traits and the only other remaining traits don't benefit your build at all (such as Son of a Gun when you're not using pistols).

One more consideration with Ironman if you do want a defensive-boosting trait, is whether to choose it or Tough as Nails, assuming your master trait blocks neither, whether as an endgame filler trait or because you are actively trying to run an extreme tanking build that isn't Survivalist (which has both required for it). Ironman has a slight edge in normal circumstances, due to it giving you a slightly wider margin of error against highly-damaging hits, not having its effect reduced by half against plasma attacks like TaN does, and netting you more effective HP from percentage-based health sources as covered prior. However, if you got very good armor with strong enough resistances to reduce damage to 5 or less, you will increasingly improve your effective survivability by increasing your innate protection rather than your max HP (with a Scout or Technician, reducing 5 damage to 4 will make them go from dying in 10 hits to 13 while 10 extra HP makes them take 12 hits; reducing 4 damage to 3 makes them go from dying in 13 hits to 17 while Iro makes them take 15 hits; reducing 3 damage to 2 makes them go from dying in 17 hits to 25 while Iro makes them take 20 hits; reducing 2 damage to 1 makes them go from dying in 25 hits to 50 while Iron makes then take 30 hits). Additionally, if you got Berserker, TaN is clearly better to invest in if it's not blocked; aside from the +60% resistance to all damage given by berserk letting you often reduce damage to that aforementioned 5 or less threshold even without particularly good armor, increasing your max HP will actually nerf the ability for Berserker to activate off of very strong hits that deal a third or more of your max HP in damage. Considering Berserker kicking in this way will apply the resistances of berserk before the damage is calculated for those nasty hits and thus drastically reduce their damage, investing in Ironman can actually substantially worsen your survivability in these cases (10 extra HP is doing shit with mitigating the 20 damage of an Arch-vile zap, whereas Berserker activating will reduce it to a much less harsh 8 damage before your own armor is applied). Additionally, Scouts and Technicians with their base 50 max HP can rather easily intentionally activate Berserker at any time by just blowing up rockets in their face, and Marines can still at least get free berserk by letting an Arch-vile zap them or by blowing up a napalm barrel in their face, while investing in Ironman eliminates this ability (investing in Iro just once as a Marine, or twice as a Scout/Technician, will mean even an Arch-vile zap will no longer be able to activate Berserker). So considering that, if you have Berserker, you likely won't want to invest in Ironman even after you fully invested in all other useful traits. Omega Tyrant (talk) 18:30, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

0.9.9.8

Ironman has been buffed in 0.9.9.8 in two ways.

The first buff is that Berserker's activation from you getting hit is now based on nominal max HP, which means increasing your max HP from Ironman no longer hinders you from reaping the defensive benefits from Berserker (i.e. if you max out Ironman, attacks will still just need to deal one-third of 50 HP to activate Berserker rather than one-third of 100 HP). As such, if you're a melee build wanting easy Berserker procs from face rockets and the VMR, or otherwise took Berserker for extra defensive insurance from very strong hits (as the resistances granted by berserk are still applied before damage is calculated), you can now take Ironman for extra durability and get the best of both worlds.

The second buff is that each level of Ironman now cumulatively gives you +10% inherent resistances to bullet, shrapnel, and melee damage. Aside from giving extra defensive utility and more value to take as an endgame filler trait (with multiple levels of Ironman combining nicely with armors that have strong energy resistances to bolster any lack of physical resistances they may have), there are these particular scenarios where this buff especially helps:

• Taking Ironman early or even as your first trait has more merit, when you're fighting predominantly Formers and melee enemies during the early game. Even just a single level for only 10% physical resistances is enough to reduce damage by 1 from Former humans over half the time, from each bullet of a Former captain burst a third of the time, always from a Lost soul charge and Demon bite, and nearly always from a Former sergeant's shotgun blast (or even save you 2 damage if you take a high damage roll from close range). That is on top of the increased HP you get, and like all resistances, it gets applied before your armor, so it can seriously extend survival in the early game; for example a Demon bite does 7 damage on average, killing a Scout/Technician in 8 hits, while Green Armor will reduce it to 6 damage and extend survival by only a single hit, whereas with Ironman's 10% melee resistance + Green Armor reducing it to 5 damage while you now have 60 HP, it takes 12 Demon bites to kill you.

• Ironman is obviously much more lucrative for melee builds and melee-locked challenges, where lots of melee damage is unavoidable, and as demonstrated in the prior point, even just one level makes a substantial difference with increasing your hit-taking ability against enemies with mid tier melee attacks (that is unless you're running Vampyre of course, where it being allowed the buffed Ironman proved to be near-IDDQD and so it's now the only mastery that blocks Ironman), while each additional 10% from successive levels of Ironman will reduce another point of damage from high tier melee attacks that deal at least 9 damage (or even 2 damage in the case of certain bosses and nightmare enemies with especially powerful melee attacks). Additionally, the resistances granted by Ironman get applied in damage calculation before your armor is factored, which means unlike Tough as Nails, Ironman does reduce damage your armor takes, and so your armors will also be lasting longer in melee combat (especially valuable as armor gets worn down so fast when you're fighting predominantly in melee).

• If you're trying to clear Unholy Cathedral with a build that has no Brute investment nor the movement + attacking speed to repeatedly hit the Angel of Death without retaliation, a level or two into Ironman in conjunction with an armor that has strong melee resistance can push you into the range to reduce the AoD's attacks to 1 damage and thus still beat him in hand-to-hand combat (for example, +20% melee resistance from two levels of Iro combined with the 40% melee resistance and 6 protection of a P-modded Ballistic Red armor will be enough to reduce all the AoD's attacks to 1 damage).

Overall, Ironman is still mostly a filler trait for all the reasons I laid out prior, at the end of the day ramping up your offense and speed still reigns supreme in DRL over what is still a purely defensive trait, but now it can benefit you to pick it sooner than endgame filler, and otherwise there's no longer reason to actively avoid picking it. Omega Tyrant (talk) 04:31, 20 July 2024 (UTC)